Discussion - Church Split

This is to give me a chance to work out a situation in my life currently. The church that we have been part of for 10-12 years has recently fallen apart. The basic "facts" (I use parenthesis because I can only report it from what I have seen and those around me - I believe if you ask others you will get a different view. My prayer is that God will show me if I am in error.)
A little over a year ago the church called a new pastor. This man is well known throughout the nation, his father is a famous writer. In the year that followed we have discovered that he has different views of how to govern the church, his ministry is not what we thought, etc. The point of this is not to attack him, the result was that he left the church in a divided way. Since then the church has been run by the deacons, one basic element was that they were divided over who is head of the church: Christ or the pastor.

There is a small group of people that through this have sought God together and would like to remain together. There is a man that had been the associate pastor of the church that would lead this group. They all believe God has called them out of the other church. The AP (associate pastor) has a real shepherds heart and loves the sheep. So the question is: is it unscriptural for them to do this? Is it a violation of God's principles? Should they just go join another church down the road?

Actually this is from a conversation I had with my son. Sons are a good thing, they are a gift from the Lord. My sons, bless their hearts, treat me at times as if I have no spiritual thought or basis. It does keep me humble, sometimes too humble. Sometimes devastated, yet it makes me think and helps me to focus back on scripture. Sons don't understand emotion at all. I have had to learn to phrase things without using emotion as a basis or cause. This is good. Sadly, sometimes I think that scripture does use emotion, but I know these boys will continue to grow in the Lord. I say all this because I want my son to know that I have thought about what he said, I have also (and more importantly sought the Lord about it) and that I am seeking scripture to be sure that I am not being lead astray. Been in Egypt, don't want to go back. My eyes just drifted down to Gal 6: 4 Each one should test his own actions. ...." I can only judge what is in my own heart. I have no gain either way this goes, should there be a new body, I gain nothing, should there not, I gain nothing.

I am not, repeat not a scholar. I am not defining this for anyone but me. This is my exploration of thought. Feel free to comment, but I need an outlet to express myself.

I did a web search, first site is "The Real Church. com" There is a list of questions. The first few are: Is there a list of the persons faults and are they biblically justifiable? 1 Cor 13:5b NIV

Are we giving the accused ample time to defend himself? John 7:51

Are we doing to him or her, what we would want them to do to us? Matt 7:21

Is this going to be a good example for others to follow? Phil 3:17

The answer to these are that during the process individuals first went to the pastor and tried to use Biblical counseling processes without success. The ministry staff also went separately then together. Now the question of "is this a good example for others to follow? Again, I don't have scripture at my fingertips but what I see in myself is that I need to remove myself from that place. The current leadership showed no desire for reconciliation with the 160+ people that left the church. There was no desire to right what was wrong. I am not saying that there are people in the church that are not following the Lord, but for myself I couldn't submit to the leadership as it exists. I read the whole passage in Phil 3:12-21 my goal is to press on, to live as I have understanding that we are to live. To met with others that have the same desire in their heart, to not play church, but to be the church.

Do we sense the presence and pleasure of God in what we are doing? Would revival spring from this behavior? 2 Chron 7:1-3
One of the last small group meetings (the new group) it was revealed that some here have never been taught to "abide in Christ". These people are longing for and thirsting for Christ and a deeper walk with him. So the answer is yes to this question.


Are we considering the consequence of our behavior should we miss God? Judas, Absalom... Recognizing that it is not always easy to see that we have missed God, there has been much prayer and consideration about this. I was once taught "what is the worst thing that will happen if you do this and are wrong?" This time, we would have to find new churches for each of us, we would have to confess we missed God, and we stand now and would then, that we long to reconcile with the body of Christ.

Moreso here I want to focus on Saul, David, and Absalom. There is a book, A Tale of Three Kings, that focuses on this story and has helped me to put things in perspective as we have walked through this situation. First, the people demanded a king, God gave them one: Saul. Our church wanted a pastor, they felt as if it had been too long, we got one. When Saul went mad, David removed himself from Saul, he never harmed Saul nor did he "trash" Saul. But he did keep himself safe and there were men that followed him, later known as David's mighty men. I don't want to digress much, but it is interesting to note Sauls sins were "pride of life" issues while David sin was flesh. It is harder to become aware of a pride of life sin, whereas it's easy to see fleshly sins in ourselves and others. Absalom also had pride issues. Which of these was a man after God's heart: David. Early in the process of this church issue several were lead to examine these three men. As we discovered that God was leading us down the same path individually we could see God had a lesson here. But the problem was not so much what the pastor was doing, but how to respond, and now that all is done, what do we do now? Are we dividing the body if we gather those that are without a home and shepherd them?


Are we endeavoring to maintain the unity of the body of Christ? Would Jesus, after praying for the unity of the church, be pleased with such behavior? Eph 4:3 I can only speak for myself. Eph 4:1-16 is a scripture that has always been important to me. I will never be worthy of the call. vs 3 "make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit...." So how is a new work going to keep unity? I don't know. We could each go and become functioning members of established bodies in this city. But what if the call is to grow this group? Do we abandon them to find somewhere and hope that this time they find a place that would teach them to abide? Do we assume that God is done with us? Maybe God has an ooppurtunity to resolve this in a way we can't imagine? I don't see my joining another body doing anything to establish unity or to reconcile the current problem. It just leaves it out in the open, that church being a sore in the community. Is this an opportunity to do as vs 14-16 say: We will no longer be infants." There is a chance here for people to grow into a role that God has for them. I am not qualified to be much in the church, yes, I have sinned and it was rather willingly. Yet am I no longer of service? What was Christ doing in redeeming me? Can I ever be part of the church, am I forever lost? I think not. But this is not about me. This is for each of us. Who is worthy? Who can lead the sheep? Who can say which of them needs to grow into a role that they would not have considered. I listened the other day as one leader spoke of this: Patsy in prayer, an older couple in teaching the children, we have those that are elderly and widows, they need someone to care. Maybe some like me have a role they haven't discovered? Who will lead worship? Who understands worship? It needs to be taught. I suspect a time to focus on the small group and equip them to be in the larger body as a whole.

Is the Holy Spirit leading this action? Rom 8:14 I would not have chosen this scripture for this question without using the rest of the passage. I can't say what is in the hearts of the others. I feel a quickening in my spirit. Is that because I dread the thought of finding a new church? Could be. But yet I also find myself wanting to share what I have with these people. There was a question posed one night, have you ever been part of a church where the spirit lead? Most said no, my husband and I have. Methinks they long for that, I long for a return to a church where we include Christ in the service, where we serve one another in love, where we learn to give, to hope, and yet expect each to walk in the light. Where weakness can be seen, but taught to overcome.

Is the person leaving willing to leave and take no one with him without reservation or excuse? Acts 20:29,30 Well, the former pastor left and took many with him. He continues to blame the church for what happened, says that the church was in terrible shape before he came. On my part, yes, I would leave quitely and go somewhere else. I have no agenda. There are a couple of places I could probably go and be a part. The great fear for me is are we starting something so that we can lead others out? There will be many accusations made against what we are doing. I have asked AP's wife many times as the church was working through some of the questions before it was clear they were no longer wanted "you want to pastor these people?" The answer stays with me, "only those God wants us to pastor." This would be my answer, I can leave, I did. No one will notice, they didn't. I am secure in that I am redeemed, I know God will provide me a place. I have no great aspirations to be known in the church. I'm a happy drone. I long to be part of worship, so my heart is to find a place where I can worship freely. Otherwise, I know God will provide.

Has conversations taken place without the presence of the accused. Gal 5:15 Again, reading the whole passage. I have been convicted about talking much about the other place. It goes between amazement that it happened, to how foolish and sinful some have been. So yes, I have sinned in that way, and am working towards not being sinful there again. I long for my heart to love them more and to pray for their freedom. I do not desire that the church there fail unless God desires it. My heart is and will always be that Christ be glorified and that not only that church but that this city would be united in Christ. The history of this city is shameful.

Has the goal always been reconciliation? 2 Cor 5:18 Yes. Yes. Yes. There is no doubt this is always what was sought. None can deny that, although many would say it was not needed. But yes.

So where does this leave me? I struggle with the thought of further dividing the church, yet I long to see reconciliation. I also long to be with this group. I struggle with the knowledge that there are few shepherds that understand sheep and understand the call, when one is found, when one's heart is bound to such a shepherd to leave would be tramatic. There are many churches in this town. There are many people that are content with where they are in church. I call my children idealistic, yet this is the time that I am. I long for fellowship where we are safe with each other, where I can say, "the Lord showed me ...." and know that it will be judged rightly, yet they won't think I'm a freak. I long to truely worship, not just 15 minutes, maybe raise our hands, oh, clap now and then, but a time when our hearts join with the Lord as one. Is it too much to ask?